Transcript: MTV Interviews Kanye West 2002
Interviewer: Can you, generally, how did you get your start in music?
Kanye West: Man, I got to say, like, I was rapping since third grade. I used to listen to Run DMC and LL and Be in the Crib and Sneakin' and listen to the rap with the Bad Words and Eazy-E and Beastie Boys and all that. And then I remember they brought out Yamahas and Casio keyboards. It was real in style. But the thing is, I had, like, an urge to really create, but I never wanted to really learn how to play music like that. So it was like, that was stagnating my growth because my mother was always like, well, if you can't play, you don't need the type of keyboard that can sequence and all that type of shit.
So once I was like in seventh grade, I was like really into drawing and I wanted to like design video games. So I got this Amiga computer, which is a really good price for all that it did. It was $500 and it had like all type of graphic program and everything.
[Interruption as someone enters the room]
Hold on. Hey, come on, man. Come on, what up, dawg? Either come in or come out. Yeah, just, I mean, whatever y'all, just don't distract my story, man.
Kanye West: Do I have to start my story over again?
Interviewer: No. Nothing's live, so it's like you pick up where you...
Kanye West: Okay, you definitely got to take me to Boston Market or something after this, man.
Interviewer: Okay.
Kanye West: Okay. America, y'all have to see me. Y'all have to get used to this face. Ain't that what everybody say? Delete that. You'll get used to me when you don't see him next year. All right, so...
Yeah, so when those keyboards came out, I had my computer and I was trying to draw on it. Then I got a sound program, like somebody bootlegged a copy of the disc with me or the sound program. I found myself just wanting to work on that all the time. Then I found myself running home from school because I have an idea, like looking at the clock, looking at 2.30, like, yo, man, I want to get this beat down. But I didn't even know anything about sampling. I was 14 years old.
I went to Chuck Levins out in Maryland, and they told me, yo, people... Yo, that do the type of music you do, they sample. I had no idea. I was just be trying to, I didn't know why my stuff didn't sound exactly like the stuff on the radio. But the sampler was like, yo, $2,000. And for somebody that's 14 years old, only getting the allowance, that was like $8 million. My father was like, yo, maybe you could save up your allowance. I had like $20 a week. Like, how am I going to save up for $2,000?
So I'm just working with that. Then I found out you can get like a little 8-bit sampler for the computer. So I got that. And, of course, the first thing I wanted to sample was James Brown. So I think back then I used to try to make beats like Full Force. And, you know, in the middle of a song, you had to have a goal where you could, like, really start doing your running, man, real, real, real hard to.
So... Back, I started making beats, and my beats started getting nice, and then my mother came home one day, and she was like, yo, you ever heard of Common Sense? I was like, yeah, I heard of Common Sense. He got a song called Take It Easy on the radio right now. He cold, right? She's like, well, I know a friend of mine said her son produces for him. I was like, oh, word? You know what I'm saying? So she's like, yeah, I'll give you his number. His name is Dion. His rap name is like Immense Mountain, Immense something. His name was Immense Slope back then. It's a really bad name. We have real bad names. I'm not even going to go into all the bad names I had.
So now I went over this crib and I remember walking in there. It's like walking in Def Jam now. Like walking into Kevin's office or something. Like that's the closest you could possibly get to the industry because they actually had something that you heard on the radio and it was dope. You know what I'm saying? So...
I was over there, I'm playing my beats. I had the fast beats, like what I was telling you before, a comic came in, like, CD, that's what I want, I want some fast beats. I think around that time, he still wanted to rap, like, and do the Big Daddy Kane stuff, but he didn't even realize the style that they was doing is the style that we do today. Like, they was using the intimate friends and the singing, the dum, dum, dum. And speeding up the singing.
I remember Dion was like, yo, I'll give you some tips on sampling. He had a SP-1200. I had never seen none of the real equipment in there. At that time, who was hot? Like P-Rock, Lost Professor, Beat Nuts, No I.D. And I had never even found them. I hadn't even stepped into a guitar center like that at that point. So he showed me how to sample records. He said, what you do to save on sample time is you speed them up. Thus is the style that we use and that everybody is using right now with the sped up samples.
So I used to be sweating, I mean, bugging them. I'm trying to word myself with the least amount of profanity as possible. Bugging them to death and... You know, he changed his numbers about 100 times with me, but I always figured out how to get him. I'd be knocking on his window while he was with his girl. So then I had to go out on my own at that point. He taught me a lot, but I had to take it upon myself to just listen to the music that was out there and try to get my music as good as that.
But all along, I'm always rapping. I had groups, and I was always the weakest rapper out of the people in the group. You know what I'm saying? It would always be like somebody who really had it, but they just didn't have the passion for it. But I had to, every night I was working, every night I just, like, it wasn't nothing that was gonna stop me. Like, people would look up and they're like, yo, I just heard of Kanye. Like, I've been doing this since really, like, yo, telling my teachers, like, man, I might not even have to turn on my homework this year because I'm finna be signed this year. You know what I'm saying? Back in seventh grade. I mean, I told my gym teacher freshman year, like, man, I ain't coming to gym class no more. I'm finna be signed this year. She gonna come to me senior year, like, yo, what's up with that record deal? Ha ha ha ha ha.
Interviewer: So tell me, let me ask you, at what point, because you know you did the rhyming thing and the production, how did you decide, at what point, and how did you decide which way you were going to go first?
Kanye West: Which made, I don't know, I didn't decide. They decided for me, man. I always wanted to rap on my beats. It just so happened that people would hear this stuff and they'd be like, yo, do you have to rap on that? Well, if you don't, I'll just buy the beat from you. You know what I mean? So, basically, I was always a rapper. It just was a chance that, now let me word this very well because you might want to use it as a quote and I don't want to be slurring over it. Okay. I was always rapping. And it just so happened that really, really phenomenal rappers got to rap on my beats before I got a chance to. That pushed me into the classification of a producer. But I'm a rapper from the heart. Like, I got something to say, you know what I'm saying? And people are like, yo, what you finna rap about? You never sold crack out your house or put a gat to a mouth or put your fist to your spouse. So how you gonna move the crowd? I bet a thousand that you get booed out. You know what I'm saying?
Like now, the rap game has changed so much. You go from Trial Call Quest to Onyx to Swiss Beasts to... Rockefeller to the bad boys, so many different sounds and it's, you know, it's like almost playing like double dutch. Like, where do you get in the game? You like trying to like, yo, how does my style fit into what I'm doing right now? So I'm lucky that I had the opportunity to have a plateau to stand on now that my style of beats is the most popular style on the radio right now. Now that I turn on and hear beats that I could have sworn I did them, but I just didn't get no check for it. That's a Swiss beat quote right there. I could've sworn I did the beat, I just didn't get no check for it.
So now that my style, now it's like the world can accept me. It's a lot of people, it's like you just gotta get in where you fit in. You never know how you get in. You might be somebody's guy, and you end up being better than that person, and shining over that person, and you might be an intern. It's like, the question is how do you get into this industry? How do you get into the shoes I'm in right now? I'm just happy to be here. But as an artist, like, I'm not finna waste this opportunity. I'm finna take this to the next level. I remember when Pac first got out of jail and said, yo, man, Snoop is killing the game, man. I'm finna take Death Row to the next level. I'm like, what? Tupac finna do better than Snoop?
Interviewer: Well, when you said that, you know, you was in like a couple of groups and they always considered you to be like, you know, everybody else to be the bad, out of their head. What inspired you to keep going?
Kanye West: Man, I just had the hunger. My mother never raised me to ask for a handout. A lot of people that get into this game, they walk around with somebody else's chain on or driving somebody else's car and didn't even pay for the shoes that they got on their feet. My mother had a decent job, you know what I'm saying? But she... Gave me a little allowance, $15, $20 a week, and I had to go out and get my own job at age 15. Matter of fact, at 14, I was cutting hair in a barbershop, so it was instilled in me to go out and just get it. And that made me be a leader around a lot of black men. Like even my father had, I had two fathers in my life. I had my real father that I was in contact with and my stepfather that stayed there with my mother. And everybody was instilling that responsibility in me that nothing in life is given to you.
A lot of times I feel like a lot of people just rapping because it's free. You know what I'm saying? What you got to do, especially now with Jay writing his rhymes in his head, people ain't got to pay for paper no more. Everybody just feel like they finna just, you know what I'm saying, come out and be a rapper out the blue. At least with a production, you have to go up and figure out a way to get your equipment up and go buy records and do different things. So I'm talking about the work ethic is so serious. And up here at Baseline, up at The Rock, people work, the work ethic is crazy. That's why I feel like we killing the game right now. That's why we cutting ads. That's why we on Flex every week. Just question labels. That's why all you hear practically is The Rock. You know what I'm saying?
Interviewer: Just to keep it in the back history, you're speaking a lot about your parents. How supportive were they after this career you're trying to pursue in music?
Kanye West: Well, I don't think my father really understood or thought that this would be the one hobby that I really do because you know what I'm saying, one second I'm Michael Jordan, the next second I'm, who's the freestyle champion that got his own Dave Mures or something like that? The biker, one second I'm him, next second I'm a swimmer, I'm a professional diver, like I was just a shorty, I was doing a bunch of stuff, I was creative, next second I'm Michael Angelo. So he probably didn't realize how serious I was about it, because every little kid run around and write raps. But man, it's like I just loved it too much. You know what I'm saying? I was just always trying to figure out a way for me to be able to express myself. And rap was the best way to express what was on your mind.
Me and my father sit up and talk about a lot of issues that needed to be brought up. You know what I'm saying? But a lot of people that have that instilled in them don't know how to word it in a way where the public could accept it. So now that I got this stamp on me, I got the backing of Mos Def, Kweli, Jay-Z, I got every...
Interviewer: And before you met like, you know, some of the dudes you just named and even like the person, you know, even like maybe the first real big dude. How did you get your music out there? How did you get your name? How did you get heard?
Kanye West: $200 for the beat, but they only had $80 on them. And don't you remember when I just bought you lunch yesterday? You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, I paid my dues. I mean, I was 14 years old trying to do beat tapes. I remember back in... Grammar school, we used to have rap groups, and I had to write the raps for all the rap groups. I remember this one time, we was trying to do a talent show. This is where I learned, pick your audience, you know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta figure out who you were actually rapping to, because I had my music teacher, who was my favorite teacher in the world, Miss Morgan, and you know what I'm saying? She was like, she was kinda like the Lane Bryant size or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And we got up there, and we thinkin' we finna perform Fat Girls Out Back for the talent show. So of course we didn't make it. At that point I was like, you know what I'm saying, figure out who you rapping to.
Interviewer: What was your teenage life like?
Kanye West: Yeah. I know I've been going off on tangents, but I'm feeling like y'all could just use little clips of that, you know what I'm saying? I don't know how you're going to word it, because you didn't ask me a question. I know I'll give you a basic answer, and then I'll just go into some other interesting shit. So, I mean.
Interviewer: Like around the time when you was really trying to.
Kanye West: When I was trying to get on, I mean one time I got so into hip hop that I had an afro with no lining. I had like one of them Gap life preserver vests. I had some Reeboks with fat laces. And I ain't even had an old Reeboks, because in Chicago we ain't had that. You know what I'm saying? It was hard to find them. I could find the fat laces, but I couldn't find like the official, like the old Pumas or whatever. So I was just trying to just really be and live hip hop. Then I figured out like, man, I ain't really getting no girls with this. This is not really working for me, right?
So I think that is the difference of, like you go to hip hop parties in Chicago and wouldn't nobody be dancing with no girls. There'd be a dude doing a helicopter finna kick some girls in the head. They get mad if some girls start dancing or something. That's when I figured out, like, yo, maybe whatever definition that everybody here got in hip-hop, maybe that's not what hip-hop is to me. I love the music.
So then everybody try to separate now and say that you're not hip-hop because you go out and buy some jewelry. No, having jewelry is not a basis of hip-hop. Look at Rakim, you know what I'm saying? Look at Run-D.M.C. You trying to tell me they not hip-hop? It's like, okay, you trying to tell me because most deaf and quality don't buy jewelry, that they are more hip-hop than Jay-Z, or what's quote-unquote real hip-hop? I feel like my album, the perspective that I'm going to speak from, I feel like I'm going to bridge the gap. I'm going to be one of the people that help bridge the gap with hip-hop. Because I'm going to talk from the perspective of... Just being honest, like, yo, I always said if I rap, I say something significant, but now I'm talking about money, hoes, and rims again. Like, I want to do what's right, you know what I'm saying? But I'm a human being, like, okay, I got songs like, Jesus Walks With Me, but then I got songs that's like, I Need To Know, He's Down To Do Whatever. Down to get it jumping. Down to get topless. Maybe I need, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm a man. I'm a human being.
People feel like an artist. They be like, yo, if you an artist, you can only rap about this one subject. You have to stand for this specifically. I'm going to stand for everything I've seen in my life. And I'm going to try to express that to y'all the best I can. And I feel like I'm creative enough that I'm going to make it work. You know what I'm saying? I know nobody has ever stood up and said, yo man, let me actually show you that it's more than one side to me. I don't know if I really believe in that Gemini stuff and all the constellations and all that. Like I really believe in God. Like, but I know that it's more than one side to me. I know on one end, when I get a check in, sometimes I be thinking like, yo, man, I'm finna go and get this chain off layaway from Jacobs right now. I know sometimes I have some money in my pocket and I might give a bum $20 instead of just $2. I know that I'll go to church with my grandparents and really try to hear what the word is or what they trying to tell me or really try to understand about religion or what do I want to pick?
So I'm confused as a black man. A lot of times artists come into the aspect that they not confused about who they are, whatever. And then you always hear about, man, I love the album, but she a hypocrite or he's a hypocrite. Cause you know what I'm saying? It's like, if somebody talks about killing somebody, does that make them a hypocrite? If they decide to go to church or they go to church and they... Actually kill somebody in a rhyme or you don't say cuz people don't kill if people kill as many people in a rhyme You don't say every like some Vietnam type shit, but...
Interviewer: Do you feel like you being from Chicago does that like think that that's to your advantage? You know, there's very few MCs coming out of Chicago.
Kanye West: Man, I feel like coming from Chicago is definitely an advantage. I feel like everything that anybody ever said in life would be a disadvantage to me, I'm gonna make it my advantage. When I was playing basketball, everybody said I was too short. I'm killing them with the scoops, you know what I'm saying? Everybody says, you can't rap because you're a producer. Okay. Oh, I didn't hear that beat. Oh, yeah, I know. I produced it. I just rapped on it before you got a chance to hear it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm going to use everything that everybody says that I can't do, and I'm going to flip it to the positive. Like, I look at everything as a glass half full and then half empty. And it's like, I'm the type of person, I don't hold grudges. Like, one of my best friends made a song dissing me. And I looked at all the positive in the situation. I'm like, look, that's probably my name or more. He came to me like, yo, I'm sorry.
Like, I feel like maybe a lot of the rules of hip hop, like a lot of the aggression and the negativity that people have towards people, maybe I'm not hip hop because of that. Because of where my heart is and because I won't confide to what people say. A lot of stuff, I feel like 90%, 10% of life is what happens to you. 90% is how you react to it. And hip hop is based a lot in the past is people reacting negatively to situations. You know, it's like, I'ma listen to things that my father told me and my stepfather told me and walk like that and try to walk in a way that I could look to God the next day. If it's something I got to repent for, it's something I got to repent for. It's something that as a man, you know what I'm saying? Because I got things that I'm addicted to. Like I like to be in a club, you know what I'm saying? And do the club thing and stuff. But also it's like, I know it's like this light. Just like that, I had to follow, you know what I'm saying? And I'm not easily influenced. Like when I was in kindergarten, people used to tell me stories like they'd come and all the kindergartners would be following me around the class. Because I'm going to be the one to say no. You know what I'm saying?
A lot of times, I feel like if people don't agree with what you're saying, then they be like, oh, man, fuck him. He a bitch. You know what I'm saying? He in one of da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's all the same theory what your parents used to tell you a long time ago. Like, yo, if he jump off the bridge, would you jump off also? I'm telling you, I ain't jumping off no bridges. Go ahead, dog. It's all good. All right, dog. I'm just going to be up here. I'm just going to be up here living right now. You know what I'm saying?
Don't move to New York. I say one line, I be like, how you go to New York? What you ain't never took a tour there? What you ain't know you got to be rich just to be poor there? There's a song I got on my album called Dream Killers that basically talks about how people just try to just down you. Like, okay, you know what I'm saying? Since DV tape is not that expensive, I'm going to go ahead and spit you one of the raps from it.
It goes, I'm finna get on this TV and put it down. I ain't finna let these light-skinned dudes come back and stab. I'm finna... bleep that out. I'm like, I'm finna get on this TV and put it down. I ain't finna let these light-skinned dudes come back in style. I'm finna turn this class clown shit to crazy G's. They told my mom I think he bipolar, had ADD. I told them what I wanna do. I wanna be a baller. The dream spoilers are for ya. Hatin' on you till they mans on the call list. Old folks say they never make it off the corner. They are the virus that corrupts the soul. They are the cubic zirconia inside the 10 karat gold that get green on you when you get green on them. You gotta wash your hands of them, get clean on them. Somebody told me success is the best revenge. So they gonna be fucked up when you do your thing on them. And hold your plaques high like who would have thought. And tell them, thank you for your no support. They are the dream killers.
You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of concepts that people ain't never touched on in rap. You know, I really like Noin Hill album and music album. Because they're not afraid to talk about issues that people really go through. You know what I'm saying? Whatever happened to real life? You know what I'm saying? Whatever happened to... You know what, girl? I can't really afford this movie. We got to go Dutch. I know I got jewelry on and everything, but whatever happened to... You know, I was in the club, and I ain't really getting... No girls, like four girls, this, you know what I'm saying? But I guess that's like anti-hip hop, right? Because hip hop was always about front and always acting like, I feel like that's the black mentality anyway because since we ain't never had nothing and we get a little something, we got to show it to prove something. You know what I'm saying? It's almost like the concept of walking in a store and you look like a shoplifter unless you got something on. You feel like you got to wear jewelry just to get the same service. I say in a rap, getting green make you almost white.
Interviewer: Let me ask you, what would you consider at what point in your life was like the breaking point where you feel that you finally, you know, you got some accomplishment, you got your name out there, like you're in the game?
Kanye West: Man, I still feel like I ain't in the game where I need to be. You ain't never broke. Maybe once I win, see? Then I look at these you hear first and people say exactly the stuff I wanna say, like, we won the Lifetime Achievement Award. But, okay. The breaking point, I feel like there's no, there's no real breaking point. You have to just struggle every day because when you do something good, you have so much on your back. You have so much to prove at that point. So now you're trying to just move forward. Like, I can say my breaking point was when I heard I'm Bad by LL Cool J or something. Okay, I'll go back. I feel like you had to struggle. I feel like you had to struggle.
Interviewer: Ask me a question again.
Interviewer: At what point would you say in your career do you feel that maybe a track you produced finally got in the right person's hands or the right person might have heard your music? Just in general.
Kanye West: I can say different things that happened to help me along my career. But I feel like to this point, I still feel like I haven't broken what I wanted to break. Because in my heart, there's so much stuff I wanted to say to the world. And the most I've been able to do up to this point is maybe suggest a couple lines to some people. It's like I really got a lot on my mind. Like I see stuff and I'll be like, yo, the way I word it, it's... I'm not using rap as a way that I think I'm going to get paid or something. I'm using it as an opportunity to really say some stuff that I think needs to be heard, that I think people will enjoy.
I'm trying to give back. I want Q-Tip to hear my shit and be like, I could listen to this album every day. I want to give back to when I used to listen to Mobb Deep's album on the train. With my headphones on and that's what made the train ride feel like I was in a Benz because I just had that album. You know what I'm saying? It didn't matter what car I was in. It didn't matter if I was walking the street. It didn't matter if I was in the rain or what happened because I had the headphones on. I had that hip hop in my ears. Like it's done so much for my life. So until I feel like I can really, really give back. You know what I'm saying? I feel, but definitely like I gotta always show love to like Rockefeller, D-Dot, Jermaine Dupri. It's a lot of people that's helped me in my life. But maybe now Rockefeller is finally letting me get to the point that I've been waiting to get to my entire life since third grade.
Interviewer: Where, now, it seemed to be, like you said, you know, you're not just in this for the money, you know, you're in this for the love of it. At what, along the line, where along the line did you know that this is something that you wanted to really pursue to make your career?
Kanye West: Man, I knew I wanted to be a rapper. Like, well, I knew it was like, yo, I'm not going to do anything else. Like, I say I was 19 years old and I was in college. And I had demos, and I produced a couple tracks for people that actually had albums coming out. They weren't on major labels. They weren't finna go gold or anything. And I had my demo, and I knew it was getting hot. And I was freestyling. I knew I was ripping niggas down in a freestyle. I knew I was crushing them. I knew I was crushing everybody on the beats. So I had this song, I'm not even gonna say what the title of the song is, because I'm not even finna let it get used against me, but I had this song, and it was like a single-sounding song, I guess, and this dude from Columbia, I forgot the A&R's name, that walked it in, ended up flying me out to New York.
You know, we had the whole VIP, the limo, where he's eating upstairs at the Sony building. I'm walking to the Sony building like, oh, my God, I'm walking in there every day now. It's nothing. But back then, coming from Chicago, they're like, yo, you finna get signed to Columbia Records. At that time, they had Nas and the Fugees. You know what I'm saying? It's like, yo, I'm finna follow in their footsteps. I have my gear ready. My bucket is right. Check. You know what I'm saying? I had everything. Yo, I had the... I had like the hat, like the old man hat what we used to wear. I was poloed up. You know what I'm saying? We used to do polo hard, man. Shout out to TJ Maxx and Marshalls, man. Thank you. You saved my life. Yeah, I'm telling you, man. So we went up in there and then I told, see, this type of story, I can't even tell on camera like this because there's too many names involved. I have to change the names to protect the innocent. I told the A&R there, I was like, yo, man, I'm going to be bigger than Michael Jackson. I'm going to be bigger than Jermaine Dupri. What?
Interviewer: Okay.
Kanye West: For a long time, people were telling me, man, if you go out to New York, you could really get your music on. You could really kill the game out there. But you know, you got your family out there. I got my girl out there. I have my group out there. I felt like I had a responsibility to the city to stay there and help try to make it blow. But then it's like, it was straw after straw until the straw broke the camel's back. I had two artists. One artist ended up leaving me, getting signed, and didn't get any beats from me. Then I had another artist, and I signed him to my company. And then he ended up leaving. And when he was telling me he was leaving, my landlord came upstairs and was like, you have too much traffic in your house. You're evicted.
So I was like, man, at that point, if I wasn't ready to leave by then. So I really thank God. That's another one of the situations where I knew that it was a light. And automatically when that happened, I said, oh, I see what's happening. God don't want me to be here no more. I grabbed all my stuff up, just threw it in a U-Haul. I ain't even tell my landlord I was leaving. Like, cause he would have been on some nitpicking, probably would try to take my whole security deposit and all that. And I just drove to New York. I hadn't even seen my apartment. I ended up driving, I got an apartment in Newark.
So, you know, if I went to Newark, I definitely hadn't seen where I was moving. And earlier, like two months before that, I was in a car accident where my expedition had flipped over three times. And like, you know, I guess it was meant for me to be here or something for me to walk away from that. So that was a blessing. So I was out here, I didn't have a car. So I used to just take the New Jersey transit and I'd pack up all my stuff, pack up all my debts and put them in a bag and just walk over here to baseline.
And that was the key right there, being able to walk up in the bass line and play these rappers, these beats. I remember it was Beanie Siegel's birthday, and I came and I played a bunch of soul beats. We had soul beats here and there, but I had a bunch that I was building up, just from the success of Can't Be Life. I was like, I need to make some more stuff in this vein right here. So I'm playing Beanie some beats and he get the smile of like, yeah, it's hot. But he had to go somewhere. I don't know. He was going somewhere for his birthday.
So then Hov came in. I remember he had a Gucci hat on like the Fisherman joint and hip hop. My manager, who definitely saved my life, was like, yo, play that one beat for Hov. Then it came on. Then he was listening to it like, ooh, it's crazy right here. Then it got to the chorus, and the chorus was like, ain't no love in the heart of the city. He's like, oh, oh. He's doing his face like that. Then he's like, play the next beat, play the next beat. I'll play another beat. This was like, yo, man, you a soulful dude.
And everything that Hov is saying is like in stone. I will never forget none of these words because I'm off the train. I'm from Chicago. I got $10 in my pocket right now. And I'm just having an opportunity to play these beats. So I'm, you know what I'm saying? I've had different so-called hit records and everything up to that point. But at this point, it's like, I'm just, this is like the moment of truth for me right here. So now I play another beat. Then I play another beat. Then I played this one beat, and it was like, never, never, never, never change. I never change. Yo, he took his hat down. He's like, ooh. I was like, yo, maybe you like him. Maybe you hold my body's beat. So he was like, yo, put them joints on CD. And then he left out, right? I was like, okay, I'm putting these on a CD. We'll see what happened.
So then two weeks later, the blueprint was finished, right? So basically at that point, everything started rolling. Everybody's like, yo, man, I heard you had half the blueprint album. I heard you did half of Jay-Z's album. I couldn't even believe in myself at the point when it was happening. Then I started connecting. I knew my people there, Prez. I knew just different people. And my guy, my dog, 88 Keys, one night, he said he's having a rapper come up here and just to play him some beats he had to play. So dude walks through the door and it's Mos Def. So I'm like, oh.
So I didn't have no beats on me at that time. I think I was trying to rap for him. He's like, yeah, whatever, whatever. I was trying to say a rap over a beat because I'm like, I want Mos Def to know I can rap, yo. And it was at a real, real week over the beat. I was rapping it over. I was like, man, I should have picked a better rap. Because when you meet a rapper, I was in the same shoes that somebody that walk up to me now walk up to any of these rappers. Well, you got one opportunity to say your best rap that you think is going to impress this specific rapper the most. You know what I'm saying? That didn't work, you know what I'm saying? Whatever I was spitting.
But then he's like, yo, we got beats. I'm like, yo, man, I'll play you beats. And I was telling him about the takeover because he got Jack Johnson. So he was really into rock stuff. I was like, I got some more stuff like that. I ain't had nothing else like that. You know what I'm saying? I went and made some more stuff.
So then I think maybe a week later, I played some beats for Mos. A bunch of joints that I had that was in that vein, you know what I'm saying, of stuff that I thought he liked. Next thing you know, Mos Def got five beats.
I'm saying, so then I go to the studio to play most some beats one day, and he wasn't there. And this dude was in the hallway. He was like, yo, you here for most? I looked up, it was Kweli. He's like, yo, man, what's up? You Kanye West? I was like, yeah, dog. He's like, yo, you can play me some beats? I'm like, well, I had a CD here for most. He's like, yo, man, come and just play these beats right quick, dog.
So I walked in. I played some beats. Now, I got quality for a single. I got three joints on this album, you know what I'm saying? So it was happening like, I felt like God was just walking me. God kicked me in the ass to get out of the shot. God put me in situations where it wasn't like I was going out like, yo, let me try to meet these artists. Like, I wasn't even thinking about who I was. All the time, really, I was just thinking about how I was gonna get my record deal. You know what I'm saying?
So it just so happened that he was putting me in situations where I was able to eat and able to build these relationships because I feel like Most helped me get my record deal. Like, I did a song with him, which is my first single, and it's a two-word joint that's crazy. It's me, him, and Freeway.
And I had a bunch of crazy songs for it. But when Dame heard that, he was like, yo. And I remember when I first heard it, because I was supposed to go to a bunch of different labels, man. Like, it got to the point after Blueprint, a bunch of labels wanted me. You know what I'm saying? And The Rock, it always never seemed like I could be at The Rock because of my subject matter and everything. And he's not in the same exact vein as the rappers that y'all used to hear. But now we expanding, you know what I'm saying?
And I expanded the music I was doing because I was doing very creative stuff. But then I'll be giving Hov and Bleak and Benny all these gutter beats that people really like. So it's like... Why not just rap over the beats that people like? You know what I'm saying? And still say what I'm talking about.
So, one day I'm playing this stuff. I just wanted to play some songs on the bass line. And Cam was in the studio just to see like, man, is my stuff worthy of playing it around these people yet? Because people used to diss my stuff like, man, you always pick wack beats to rap over. You trying to be too different.
So I played it. Then Dame heard it. He was like, yo. Okay, play another one, play another one, play another one. I'll play another one. He's like, yo, yo, it's not even whack. It's not whack. Actually, it's kind of dope. Actually, it's kind of hot. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of hot. Yo, you ain't signed with Capitol yet, did you? I was like, no, I ain't signed with him yet. He's like, yo, okay, play another one.
So I played another one. He was like, yo, yo, yo, Cam, Cam, what you think, though? He could do like a chronic, like an East Coast chronic, though. See, he could be like, and then he started just going into the whole, the rest of what my career is about to be right now.
And the difference, like, Dame was like, yo, it could be this, but then he could just rap. He rapped like a regular rapper. He rapped like a real rapper. He rapped better than the average rapper. You know what I'm saying? So now, because of hip-hop, G, the Blueprint, and Dame, I'm over here with the opportunity to get my music out, which is what I wanted since third grade. You know what I'm saying?
Interviewer: What would you say was the first record that probably caught everybody's attention?
Kanye West: That was... I feel like the first record where I really got recognition for was The Truth. Even though it wasn't a great commercial success, it's like I just really got that respect. Because I always wanted respect for my music. Like I told you, man, it's the real thing right here, man. I'm not trying to do this for a check, you know what I'm saying? So The Truth mean a lot to me. Then, that was a great record, because it also formed our relationship with Rockefeller.
Then the next joint was Can't Be Life. Then, after the Can't Be Life, I had all these joints, but I wasn't selling no beats. It was like, after I moved out to New York and started getting things going, I got the joints on the Blueprint, I remember I came in the studio one day at Hove and listened to all the songs. Because all he does, he records the songs in like five minutes, and then for the rest of the day, he just makes people come over and listen to them. Like, yeah. Look how I'm killing y'all. You know what I'm saying?
So, um... Basically, he was about to leave out the room. He had played the songs. He's like, yo, after this song, Guru, I'm going to the lounge. I was like, yo, I got one beat to play. I got to play you this beat. I got to play you this beat. So then he's like, okay. You know what I'm saying? You did good so far. You know what I'm saying? You gave me six joys so far. I'll go ahead and listen to it now. I guess that's what he was thinking. He didn't say that. He was just like, okay, play the beat, man. So I put it on.
Interviewer: Did you start bobbing his head to it?
Kanye West: Like, let me give you one of them looks, like. That's how you know you got a heat rock. Let me give you that right there. So then, um, maybe about two or three minutes later, I don't know, you know, it was like this. He just tapped me on the shoulder. He said, H to the S-O, V to the S-A, for shizzle, my dizzle used to dribble down the PA. Woo! So I went to the bathroom, right? I called my mom and said, mom, we about to make it. We really gonna make it this time. It's about to be on now.
So then he had this song and then we didn't have a chorus for a long time. So then Tone, Trackmaster Tone came in and we had different chords. We was going back and forth. I had an idea, he had an idea. And Trackmaster Tone heard the beginning. He was like, yo, just use the beginning for the chorus. That's the chorus. And Ho's like, nah, I don't want to make no more name choruses.
So... Tone was like, nah, just have a girl sing over it. Then he started like, oh, got up and said, this is the point of like, see, that's why you make the big bucks. That's why you make the big bucks. Then we had to figure out what was all the words going to be, because all we had was for Sizzle Manez, who used to dribble down in V8. So he's like, H to the S on V. So two minutes later, we're trying to come up with the in-between words, right? He said, that's the anthem. Get your damn hands up. I said, oh.
I went to the DuPont registry, right? So I started picking out cars and what I was going to get, like when it came out, what I did get, like when it finally came out, I did have to go purchase some stuff. Excuse me, most equally. I apologize. I purchased foreign vehicles and cars.
Interviewer: I remember that the first time that he even previewed that joint was at the BET Awards. Right. Did you see that?
Kanye West: Yeah, I saw it.
Interviewer: How did that make you feel?
Kanye West: Man, that felt, you know exactly what that felt like. That felt like on five heartbeats when they heard their song on the radio. And I wasn't even sure that he was going to do that, so I had no idea. It wasn't even tracked. It was two-tracked. It was pro-tuned at the time. He said, yo, I want to do a new song. Ladies and gentlemen, it's all BET today. It came on. I was like, oh my God. I think I was on the phone with my girl. And then she just started screaming like on five heartbeats, like, ah! We going shopping!
So after that, man, all kind of phone calls, man, two ways. It was just on at that point. And all along, though, I'm trying to figure out, like, man, how am I going to get my rap career out here, you know what I'm saying? I ain't going to come up with a rap as good as this AC that is on, you know what I'm saying? Because he a vet in the game, you know what I'm saying? Ain't no new dudes just coming out the box making that because... If you've been in the game a long time, you've seen so much. Your experience, you go from everything that you have from being on the block and doing whatever you had to do to seeing the entire world.
So how's a new artist or a 19-year-old artist gonna come in and outdo that? So I said, look, I can't talk about what he's talking about. I gotta talk about something from here instead of trying to compete with him. Let me just try to find something that ain't none of these rappers touching on yet. Like I got a song that's called Self Conscious. When did a hip hop artist ever make a song called Self Conscious? You know what I'm saying?
Or I'll be like, I say, like I start with the girl part. I say, man, I promise. She's so self-conscious. She has no idea what she doing in college. That major that she majored in don't make no money, but she won't drop out her pants or look at her funny. Now, tell me that ain't insecure. The concept of school seems so secure. Sophomore three years ain't picked a career. She like, fuck it. I'll just stay down here and do head.
Interviewer: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. That line was just too good. That line was too good. That line was too good.
Kanye West: You see what I'm saying? See? It's not no regular producer rap. I told y'all that before, man.
Interviewer: So, how did you get people like, you know, like your peers, like Jay and all the other dudes...
Kanye West: Man, it's just persistence, man. After a while. Like, I wasn't just rapping for everybody. Like, Bleak didn't even know I could rap until I was about to have a deal. Then it's like, when I spit, they like, oh, Kanye, he rock. I can't even believe this. I can't believe dude that make beats this good can actually rap this good.
Like, I remember I was working with Mocha. She was like, yo, it's crazy. It's like, he rap just as good as he makes beats. I've never seen this before. Man, on a real, I wish I did rap as good as I make beats. Hopefully, the more I practice, because if I rapped as good as I made beats, then I'd be doing six micas every time, you know what I'm saying?
Interviewer: Does it worry you at all that you know you being such a big producer?
Kanye West: Yo, I feel like if I do what I'm supposed to do, people are gonna look back like, man, dude, remember dude used to just make beats for people? I'm trying to get to the point where I can drop my last name off my name, you know what I'm saying? Seriously.
I don't want to jinx myself or nothing, but I'm going to take this opportunity. I got some songs, I got some stuff in my heart that the world needs to hear. And I think about what I'm doing. I figure, okay, I want to express this message, but... Maybe I might have to get another artist on it and place it like this and put it in this vein.
I'm not just going to step out and just be like, yo, just look at everything I have right now and then the world not accept it. I got to put it in a way that the world will accept it and then develop it into being an artist. And when you see me on stage, like... A lot of times, I feel like I'm very animated. I'm very emotional because what I say means so much to me that eventually the people are going to have to accept it.
As being a producer, yeah, a couple people know me as a producer, but I'm not that big as a producer. I'm not even going to fool myself. I got a couple hits, but tomorrow's not promised. So I'm still taking a sacrifice. I could look at it like I got some beats that's so blazing on my album that I could look at it if I in some way was to fail and say, man, why did I just get this beat to DMX? And why did I just get that beat to Hov? And why did I just follow the producer path?
So it's once again at a point in my life where I have to step away from something I'm doing or retreat in order to follow what my dreams really are. Because you can't win the war. You can't fight every battle and win the war. Sometimes you have to retreat and then come back. I've already taken a loss like... I'm not selling as many beats as I used to sell because I'm sitting up here trying to think of raps and stuff. I mean, but I gotta follow my heart, man.
Everybody look at it and say, yo, man, he crazy, man. He trying to rap, man. What's wrong? He stupid. He trying to rap. Yo, I can't react to that, but I'm thinking of how people just told me I was stupid for trying to rap. And now I'm up here on MTV, you here first. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it feels good right now, man.
Interviewer: It's like... Man, that's one of the hardest parts right there, depending on are you going to say this beat for yourself or are you going to try to give it to somebody else?
Kanye West: This is what I do. This is the truth of the matter. I take every beat that I think is hot, and I try to rap on it first. And if it don't come out hot, then I give it to somebody else. Except if we in the process of working on somebody's album, like, okay, say, if we working on a Blueprint 2, I might, even before I fathom rapping on it, I might bring it to Jay. I'll bring it to the top caliber rappers. Then I try to rap on it. Then I play it for everybody else. You know what I'm saying?
People are always saying, no, see, you be giving your best beats away. Nah, man. I feel like sometimes people don't even rap on my best beats. Like when my album comes out, it's a beat style, two years old, and people are like, yo, you was saving that beat. I'm like, nah, man, I played that for everybody. Sometimes people just have to see it in song form and have to hear it on the radio.
I remember the truth. People was dissing the truth so much. And then when it came out, people was like, yo, man, what up with that, man? I remember I was just sending it to people. They was like, man, dog, send me the heat, man. Send me the heat. Why you sending me this?
Interviewer: How do you... Another thing as far as being a producer, how do you get... What is, like, the, I would say, what is, like, the differences, like, with you being in a session with Jay as opposed to being in a session with, like, Mos or Tyler?
Kanye West: Man, everybody got their style of rapping. I'm telling you, Mos and Jay both will spit their stuff real fast. They real proficient. Like, it's people that I've done beats for where I actually didn't get to be in a session with them, where they send it out. I'm telling you, you looking at you here first, real, this is not the producer's standpoint of a Dre or a Timbaland. That's up to there. Like... It's not sweet like that yet. It's still for the love to a certain extent. You know what I'm saying?
So everybody try to tell me like, yo man, when you get on TV, man, you gotta personify something more than where you are. But I'm always walking the steps that I'm at right there. And hopefully one day I'll be to the point where I can say like a Dre or Timbaland, like, yo, I just work with every single artist that I ever did a beat for. But I know...
Working with Jay definitely can spoil a producer because it's no work at all other than to play your beat. The next thing you know, you got a hit song on the radio. That's why Just, man, smart, man. He was like, man, I'm not trying to go out and find no new rappers. I got Cam, Bleak, Beanie, Hove, Freeway, Young Kripp. Like, why do I need to go develop an artist if I got already developed artists? I'm getting money like how I'm supposed to anyway, you know what I'm saying?
Interviewer: And what do you think about Just as far as like, you know, as far as a producer?
Kanye West: Okay.
Interviewer: Isn't he one of the people who inspired you to move here?
Kanye West: Yo, Just used to, I remember one time I was working on a demo in my crib for $500 for somebody in my crib that I didn't even want to be in my house. You know what I'm saying? But I had to, it was something, you know what I'm saying, that I needed. I wanted to get a peddly off layaway or something, so I was trying to, I'm doing demos for $500, and they in the back room recording. Whack. Terrible.
I'm talking to Justin on the phone. He's like, yeah, yo, yeah, so whatever. Dog, I got to go, man. I think that's Busta right behind me. I'm like, yo, I need to get out there, man. What am I doing, man? I'm here. He over there doing beats for Busta. I'm doing beats for Busters. You know what I'm saying?
Interviewer: Yeah. So what you want me to say about it?
Kanye West: Oh, just like a Shaheen move right there. There's a Shaheen move right there. There's a boy, Shaheen, who gets the calls. You see it on DVD. DVD, DVD.
Interviewer: You don't even have to specifically address that. But is that something that happens all the time?
Kanye West: Okay, I'll just talk about it. Okay. A lot of times with beats, man, people will be acting like the beats is going to be there for them. You know what I'm saying? Like a beat is not so... Until the check clears. Period. Unless you hove or sky phase, you know what I'm saying? I mean, it's always exceptions, you know what I'm saying?
Like, I hold a beat for Jay. Like, yo, I leave this beat in my will. He told me he was going to rap on it, so I'm still holding it. But as far as like... Just in general, man, it's like if you don't pay for the beat, it might be gone. It's like, beats is like they in a store. You know what I'm saying?
Like say you go, whatever, like you go to Mitchell and Les, and you tell them, yo man, hold this crazy throwback that don't nobody got, that I'll be killing the club. I'll kill the club with this right here. Just hold this for me. I'll be back tomorrow. So you hold it for them till tomorrow. Then you hold it two weeks. Then you hold it three weeks. Then you sell it. And it's like, yo, you don't remember you did that beat? Like, dog, man, it's a store, man. It's a business.
It's for the love of hip hop. So if I love the artist, the more and more I love the artist, the more leeway I give them. You know what I'm saying? I love Scarface, Hov, Cry Most. I used to, I grew up off Pharoah Montes, though. Like, um... Organized Confusing, the second album, that was like one of my favorite albums. Souls of Mischief, Far Side, Common. So many.
Interviewer: Do you want me to talk about producers, any producers I like?
Kanye West: I don't know. Okay. Okay. Yes, it's here. Um, um, that's like my trademark to say, um, um, I don't mean no harm. Your boy, young K, gotta mean no harm. Man, as far as working with other producers, it's a lot of people that I wish I had the opportunity to rap on their beats. I feel like this first project, I'm going to do at least 99% of it because I want to prove to the world that I can do a whole album. You know what I'm saying? Like how Dre got his opportunity, Timberland, Neptunes.
And in order to get on that level, you have to take an artist and prove that you can produce a whole project, singles, and be successful with that. And success is not just getting... You know, I'm trying to speak in bites, hold on. Okay. As far as working with other producers, there's a lot of producers I respect like Timbaland and Dre, Just, Bink. But on this project right here, I'm finna do 99% because I had to prove myself as a producer that I could take an artist being myself. I like to congratulate myself.
Interviewer: Hold on, what do you think? This is one of my favorite quotes that I like to congratulate myself.
Kanye West: Allow myself to introduce myself. Hold on, okay, I'll start right there. Allow myself to introduce myself. This is Kanye Tudor. As far as dealing with other producers, there's a lot of producers I respect. Timbaland, Dre, Bink, Just Blaze. I can name them off. Primo.
Interviewer: And also, too, if you could just tell us, like, where we, like, where we are, you know, and just, you know, tell us a couple of the hits that...
Kanye West: Okay. Right now, we are sitting in Baseline Studios. We got Young Guru in the house. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not official until you say Guru's in the house. I'm just really thugging it out right now. Okay.
Right now, we're in Baseline Studio. It's the home of hip-hop right now, of basically cutting-edge hip-hop. This is the home of the streets, of the radio, of everything that... It's basically what everybody is trying to do right now. And this is where it all starts right here. This is where we did the reason for Beanie Sigel. This is where we did the Blueprint, the new Freeway album. This is where the Heat Rocks on Cam'ron album was done. And also, this is where we're going to be doing the Kanye West project. Did you see how I ended that off without it going into another sentence and shit?
Interviewer: Yeah. You want to speak to Byron? Kanye's doing an interview right now. We can't take any calls back here. All right. All right, just tell him I'll call him back. OK. And as far as like who's gonna, how many tracks have you done and who are your guests and things like that? Talk about the album a little bit.
Kanye West: Yeah, I'm basically completed the album. I'm just inserting little heat rocks here and there. Whatever I come up with that's new or just that I feel from my heart needs to be heard. But it's a lot of stuff that the whole album is gonna get heard eventually, even if stuff doesn't make this album because everything is something that the world needs to hear.
And I added features of people just that I work with in our mind. I love like Scarface. Ludacris, Twista, man. How am I forgetting some of my features? I know I have a lot of features. Mos Def, yo. Mos Def and Freeway, Kweli. I got a lot of people, real lyricists that's respected. I wanna place myself next to these. It's not a matter of, okay, I'm gonna go get out who's ever selling the most records as an attempt to sell records.
As far as this album, I feel like y'all gonna get something realer. Okay, hold on. As far as this album, I feel like you're gonna get something that's truly real because, if it didn't work, I could still eat off of doing beats. So I'm not pressed to impress A&R by saying, yo, I'm going to get the right singer and the right tempo and this, that, and I got to get the jump off. Like, I'm just trying to do something to give back to my people.
I want the same people that love Tribe Called Quest and Mobb Deep and Nas and Jay-Z's first album to hear my shit and be like, yo, that's some real shit. This ain't no just trying to be on the radio type shit. You know what I'm saying? Hopefully, I get radio. I pray. That the people love it, but this is for y'all. Was that within 30 seconds right there? That was good?
Interviewer: What? What is this?
Kanye West: Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, yeah. Y'all got to see that. Hold on. Let me take this off. Yo, first of all, I want to say, what is this right here? Who finna put they thumb through this? Like, y'all can't be serious. Just put this... He's going to roll this one right up. This shirt is not young, really. It's an optical illusion because I've been, you know what I'm saying, in the gym. I just see the Scottie Pippen right there.
Okay. This right here, this tat mean a lot to me. I put a lot of the songs on here that's changed my life or just, it means something at a point in my career. That way, when we in the, when my family's in a million dollar home and they look back and they say, dad, why you got, why I can't get no tattoos? Why you got that tattoo? I'll be like, look, this tattoo is the reason why we here, why we are right here now.
It start off and say, you made me. Everything in this tattoo, can be spoken in a sinless form. It's not just songs. It's stuff that means stuff to me. Like, you made me. This is my life right here. It's so ghetto. I always speak the truth. People always say that I'm a very truthful person. This can't be life. It can't be life that I'm sitting right here right now. Because back when I was in seventh grade, I wouldn't have ever fathomed really being on this side of the screen. It's nothing like it.
I try to make my music where it's nothing like what I do. And a lot of times I lose out because of that because I'm always trying to be so creative that sometimes I can create something and a whole bunch of people can go wrong with it and make a lot of money off of it. But I'm feeling like I want to get a public something new. So it's like other people capitalize off of it. And I just hope that's not my downfall. I hope that I can just keep creating.
This right here, Izzo, the anthem. Now, y'all know what that is. That definitely was a groundbreaking record for me. My first Grammy-nominated record. Hey Mama, this is my first Grammy award-winning record right here. Well, it hasn't won a Grammy yet, but just keep this on file. Right here. Heart of the City. I do my music for the Heart of the City, and it's from the Heart of the City. And after whatever happens, I never change.
Interviewer: So what's going to happen in the future? You made that scroll kind of small. Are you going to fill up everything else or is that just signifies the beginning?
Kanye West: People always ask me what's going to happen once I make more hits. I've made plenty of hits other than these songs on here, but what I'm telling you at this point is I never change. Like I said, these are songs that I did do, but this is a scroll of my life. A lot of rules that I follow.
Interviewer: Cool. One more question. I don't know if you have anything else. I want to play a couple more tracks. Are you going to clear that Lauryn Hill sample? Are you going to try to? Or is that just for fun?
Kanye West: Nah, it's for life. I'm trying to go to Commissioner Gordon. I went to Dead Prez. I'm going to all the people that I know that know her, that are cool with her. And basically, I'm just going to go to her and I'm going to perform it. I'm going to tell her what my whole movement is and a lot of stuff that I'm trying to touch on. I'm going to be like, Ms. Hill, can you please clear this for me? And if not, then I'm just going to do it at shows.
Interviewer: That's cool. She's usually cool with positive stuff. Just wanted to answer that. All right, so if we could just have you play a track. And I know it's phony producer type stuff. And then maybe if we could get you in a track that you know real well. If we could have you maybe in the booth.
Kanye West: You know what? I don't record in the booth.
Interviewer: You don't record in the booth?
Kanye West: Nah, I press record with the mic like this. And then spit it. So that would be like a little bit.
Event Date: May 23, 2002
