Transcript: Kanye West's Zane Lowe 2013 BBC Interview

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Zane Lowe: Grab a seat, grab a seat. You remember this place?
Kanye West: Yeah, yeah.
Zane Lowe: Graduation?
Kanye West: Yeah.
Zane Lowe: I was also thinking about some of the other things we've done as well, which with the BBC, like Abbey Road sprung to mind with the strings.
Kanye West: Oh, yeah, that was good. That suit was like I would have worn something different if I could look back right now. I could still do a suit. I just wouldn't have done that exact lapel situation.
Zane Lowe: But talk about like really putting yourself on the line with that. You know, I mean, that was, you know, so early on for you to be stepping in a room with that many players and that kind of. Just give yourself that objective. I mean, what are your thoughts when you think back about Abbey Road?
Kanye West: It's just nuts. I thought it was good. I thought it was what I was supposed to do at that time. You know, if I see something, I see opportunity, I'm going to go for it. You know what I'm saying? We only, you know, we're all going to die one day.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, that's true.
Kanye West: So live like that. Live like you could die tomorrow. You know, go for it. You know, those steps have been the... You know, the platforms that allowed me to make it this far.
Zane Lowe: And you have, man. And we're here. And, you know, six albums, original albums of your own, a throne record, various records with good music to talk about, man. But seriously, Yeezus, bravo, dude. I mean, that is one of the most creative records of any genre I've heard in a very, very long time. And, you know, just in terms of your output, your most exciting sounding record, I think, man.
Kanye West: Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, I feel, you know, I was able to start just making exactly what was in my mind again, not having to speak with the textures of the time. Because, you know, Cruel Summer is definitely Kanye West, and it's something kind of weird and off about Mercy, like when it has the high-pitched...
Zane Lowe: If you look at it 200 years from now, it's not going to stand out in the way that, you know, 808s or Yeezus stands out and completely can push or redefine or make people say, you know, hey, I completely hate that or I completely love that. But let me just think differently because everybody is like bound to these, you know, no pun intended. They're bound to...
Kanye West: 16 bars and 8 bars and the normal radio thing. I was talking to Frank Ocean about this and said, my mom got arrested for the sit-ins and now we're more like the sit-outs, like sit off of radio and say, hey, radio, come to us.
Zane Lowe: We need to find something new because it's being controlled in a way and manufactured in a way that... So it almost feels like a duty to you in a weird way, having the people's ear, having people's attention and for great music to be able to say, well, if I'm not challenging them, if I'm not challenging myself, not challenging radio, what am I doing?
Kanye West: Yeah, well, I'm not trying to regurgitate myself. I showed people that I understand how to make perfect. You know, Dark Fantasy could be considered to be perfect. You know, I say I know how to make perfect, but that's not what I'm here to do. I'm here to crack and crack the pavement and make new grounds, you know, sonically and in society, culturally.
Zane Lowe: You've done that with Yeezus. I mean... It's fascinating for us to sit here and talk about this record now, because normally when I talk to artists about records of this nature, it's in the lead up to something. So we're all kind of playing a guessing game. You know what I mean? You could tell me what you think of the record, but I'm sort of trying to find my way around it. The audience probably won't have heard it. In this case, it's been out for a minute, so we can reflect on it with the benefit of hindsight too. You've seen what everyone else has had to say about this record, both good and bad, but I'm fascinated to know today how you would describe Yeezus as someone who made it. How you would describe that record, you know?
Kanye West: I just think that I'm a production person. I'm a product guy. I'm a producer. So if I'm working on a John Legend album, I'm going to try to give John Legend the best home for him to stay in. And I'm going to try to push Pusha T, no pun intended once again, this just keeps happening to me, to make... The thing that represents what I like about his music the most. And then for me as Kanye West, I gotta fuck shit up.
Zane Lowe: And you did, dude. Seriously, from the minute it starts. I mean, seriously. This is disgusting. So you're up in the loft probably at this point and you're kicking around ideas and you're putting things together and this sound comes into your head and you're like, this is what I'm looking for. This is...
Kanye West: No, this... This is me going to the studio with Tomá and Guimán and them like, who's Daft Punk? And they had a synthesizer like the size of that wall right there and like, This is just one session right here. And this beat originally was like 14 minutes long. And that part in the beginning was something we completely just distorted it. And I ended up making that the intro.
Zane Lowe: You know, I got beef with you over this track. It's too short. I wanted more out of it. You know, because it's one of the best beats on the record for me. And, you know, it just feels like you're just getting warmed up. Was that kind of deliberate, you know, to pull back after only a couple of verses and go, you know, we're going to get on with the album now?
Kanye West: No, it's just what I felt like it should be. Yeah, just a Donuts thing. And you know, like originally Blood on the Leaves was supposed to be first.
Zane Lowe: Wow.
Kanye West: And which psychologically I know would have changed certain Jesus naysayers about the album. But it wasn't that time for me. I didn't want to come up there and perform. A lot of times music can be presented as a service position, but I wanted to take a more aggressive approach with music. People go on a vacation and say, you got the drugs, you got the music. You know, you got the wine, you got the, you know, it's like, it's in that territory, you know what I'm saying? But I wanted to speak up and say, okay, so my voice is only compressed to express myself artistically through music. It's the only place where I actually have a deal, you know, so I can only consistently make things in music. So I'm going to take music and I'm going to try to make it three dimensional, like, like, like, um, um, On Star Wars and the hologram will pop up out of R2-D2. I'm going to try to make something that jumps up and affects you in a good or bad way. Whether it's I'm going into a scream in the middle of the track because that's just the way I feel. But I'm not here to make easy listening, you know, easy programmable music.
Zane Lowe: No, you're so off the rails. Preservation on this album in the best possible way. I mean, like you talked about, the way that you use your voice in different ways, you know, you don't rely on conventional rhyming flows. I mean, the opening line, years of season approaching, you know, a monster's awoken, like, you know, you're laying it out there. This isn't my beautiful, dark, twisted fantasy part two. You know, I'm wiling out on this record straight away. And then from nowhere as well, we just get treated to these wonderful moments where, like you say, it's almost like a collage. Like you're sitting here going, you know what, why can't I go into this...
Kanye West: Why not? Yeah, you can. That's how life is.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, it's true. It's like a car crash. You can just be driving.
Kanye West: Out of nowhere.
Zane Lowe: And just out of nowhere, that happens.
Kanye West: Yeah.
Zane Lowe: You know, at what point did that kind of very deliberate feel to the record, whereby breaks come in and join these really discordant electronic moments and everything seems to exist in this kind of very contradictory but it works kind of way, at what point did that start to take shape? Because it is very omnipresent through the record as a whole, the way it flips between one and the other. Was that in your head early on or did that come towards the end when you started to reduce the record?
Kanye West: I didn't reduce it. Rick Rubin reduced it. He's not a producer, he's a reducer.
Zane Lowe: Was it always part of the process though for you to say, why don't I take elements of this and this and just bolt it together?
Kanye West: Yeah, it's just the way I was consuming information in my life at that time. You know, information from, you know, whatever, negative information or positive information from the internet. Me, you know, just going to the Louvre, you know, and Going to furniture exhibits and understanding that. Trying to open up and do interviews with this. Learning more about architecture. Taking 1,000 meetings attempting to get backing to do clothing and different things like that. Getting no headway whatsoever. It was just that level of frustration.
Zane Lowe: This is what frustration fucking sounds like.
Kanye West: Yeah.
Zane Lowe: This is what frustration sounds like.
Kanye West: Like for me, as Kanye West, I would not be Kanye West if it wasn't for Michael Jackson. I was with Quincy Jones a couple of days ago at John Legend's wedding. Quincy was telling me it wasn't just Mike, but these guys broke down, you know, the barriers. Of course, you know, like Michael Jackson, like he had to fight to get his video played because he was black. This is Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson's not even black. He's Michael Jackson. You know what I mean? It's like saying he's so... Crazy, like, how can he even be just classified as, like, you know, this black artist? So, for me, you know, in my life and creativity, it's been challenging.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, it's been challenging and everything.
Kanye West: But I was able to ascend to massive levels of heights and never stop, right? Because of the foundation that my mother and my father and my grandfather laid through civil rights. What Michael Jackson did with... With music videos and the ground he broke. There would be no Kanye West if it wasn't for Michael Jackson.
Zane Lowe: That allowed him to be that, right?
Kanye West: So now let's take where there's people who have issues with me as Kanye West. They classify my motivational speeches as like rants and things like this. Like, why is he saying that? Why is he doing that? Blah, blah, blah. Well, I've reached a point in my life where my Truman Show boat has hit the painting. And I've got to a point that Michael Jackson did not break down. I have reached the glass ceiling as a creative person, as a celebrity. When I say that, it means I want to do product. I am a product person, not just clothing, but water bottle design, architecture, everything that you could think about. And I've been at it for 10 years. And I look around, I say, wait a second, there's no one around here in this space that looks like me. And if they are, they're quiet as fuck. So that means, wait a second, now we're seriously like in a civil rights movement. Like people used to joke about, do you remember our South Park photo?
Zane Lowe: Yeah, I do.
Kanye West: Remember how funny that was?
Zane Lowe: Yeah.
Kanye West: Do you think there would be a Givenchy in the hood if it wasn't for that South Park photo?
Zane Lowe: Yeah.
Kanye West: But no one thinks about that. No one thinks about the names I got called for wearing tight jeans.
Zane Lowe: You referenced that in the record. You talk about that.
Kanye West: No one's liked them since you've been wearing tight jeans. Everybody knows that you bought back real rap.
Zane Lowe: I mean, you referenced that in the record.
Kanye West: But what I'm saying, I had all that, but I bought real rap back. I'm going to do dope things. You know, and I want to take this opportunity to speak to something because I go to hypebeasts, right? Sometimes just to look at the new things that are coming out and everything. And every time my name goes up, you know, there's a series of, you know, people who like write just negative comments. They want to joke around and say, why is he still trying? Why is he doing this? Why is he? They like diss me, you know, me as a person for trying. Now, mind you, I brought 10 years of product that is added To humanity.
Zane Lowe: Yeah.
Kanye West: You know, and now what they don't realize when I say, hey, this is Pusha T. This is what it is. I have to remind Pusha T that he's Pusha T because the radio, if they're not playing a song of his that has an R&B hook on it or works at a certain level of trap tempo and plays in Club Liv, it's like we forget about that Clips album. That meant everything. And the reason why I related that to design and what we do in design is saying that's the music that us as creatives that wanted to get into design, we looked at Cliffs as the gods. And this is our soundtrack to creativity. And it's not a trap beat that comes in on that soundtrack to creativity. You know what I'm saying? It's not no knock to trap. Because, you know, I did Can't Tell Me Nothing. I like it. But it's been commercialized to the point where it's like, and I'm not mentioning no names, but when people used to use the term R&B nigga, right? People used to use the term, but then it was rappers. But then rappers didn't want to be no R&B nigga. Now the rappers is the new R&B niggas. The rappers is the new radio. Where's the culture at? Where is the culture at?
Kanye West: So then I scream and I'm sitting in the middle of it. Whether I'm at a dinner with Anna Wintour or I'm at a listening session with Pusha or me and Virgil are in Rome giving designs to Fendi over and over and getting our designs knocked down, brought down. He brought the leather jogging pants six years ago to Fendi, and they said, no. How many motherfuckers you done seen with a leather jogging pant? Meaning like, so when I see Hedy Slimane, and it's all like, okay, this is my take on the world. Yeah, he got some nice $5,000 jeans in there. There's some nice ones here and there, some good shit here and there. But we culture. Rap the new rock and roll. We culture. Rap is the new rock and roll. We the rock stars. It's been like that now for a minute. It's been like that for a minute, Hedy Stemaine. It's been like that for a minute. We the real rock stars, and I'm the biggest of all of them. I'm the number one rock star on the planet.
Zane Lowe: There it is, that record, it says that. That's what your album says, and you come out, and there are songs on there where you make that very clear. So what I want to explain to everybody out there is like, I make music, I can do it, but I shouldn't be limited to only one place of creativity.
Kanye West: And it's literally only like one or two or three reasons why I haven't been able to break that down.
Zane Lowe: But why would you feel that you are?
Kanye West: No, that's the thing is you guys don't understand. You guys don't understand. You guys don't understand that I did the Yeezys and they eBayed for $90,000. Right. And people wanted them, bad as whatever, right? But I didn't get a call from Nike the next day. You guys don't understand that I've met with companies and they say, what we're trying to figure out is how we can control you and control that. If you're an architect, if you're a world builder, if you have all these ideas and you're gouty and you want to build buildings, if you don't ever get that out, what's going to happen?
Zane Lowe: Isn't that why you do it? Isn't it the process? Isn't it the point?
Kanye West: Y'all don't think you're really hearing what I'm saying.
Zane Lowe: But I'm trying to.
Kanye West: As a creative, for you to have done something to the level of the Yeezys and not be able to create more. And you cannot, you cannot create that on your own with no support, with no backing. So when I say clean water was only served to the fairer skin, what I'm saying is we're making product with chitlins, t-shirts. That's the most we can make, t-shirts. We can have our best perspective on t-shirts. But if it's anything else, your Truman Show boat is hitting the wall.
Kanye West: And what's more important to me about this than everything that I could do sonically and everything is if I go somewhere and someone says, hey, we don't like Kanye West. You've heard that before, right? What people don't realize is I want to make uniforms for my high school basketball team through Brand Yeezy. I want to make that one step and then make another step and then eventually do uniforms for the entire city. Then I want those uniforms to be hot and make money. Then I eventually want to be the anchor and the force behind a billion dollar company. And after I made that billion dollar step, then I can go in and say, hey, I've got an opinion on this. And that could be a $10 billion step. And I eventually want to be the anchor of the first trillion dollar company. But when you sit... And you have a meeting with a company and show them the most innovative take on theater. Because you thought of it one night while you were sitting on top of Watch the Throne set, which you designed with Es Devlin. And I designed the set with Es Devlin.
Kanye West: I thought of, okay, surround vision. It should be a screen above you, below you, to the left or right of you, in front of you also. Then I paid my own money that I get paid for doing Gold Digger. Which I never really liked that song, but I always knew I would get paid for doing Gold Digger. Then I shoot a film in Qatar with three camera crews, with Nate Brown, Virgil, Matt William, Nabil, all of these crew, all of the people that every video that pops up every other day on Hypebeast, that's my crew, right? So we go out and shoot that. Three camera crews over five days, edit it over 30 days, show it at Amphar, no, show it In Cannes, the night before Amphar, on the beach, built it in a pyramid with Rem Koolhaas' agency, designed the entire thing, put editors in it, blah, blah, blah. People give a standing ovation.
Kanye West: I do an interview in New York Times the next year to say, hey, I did this, and I want to let you know I did it. Right. And then it doesn't get mentioned in the interview. And a week later, they do an interview with George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. And they're talking about what the next frontier of theater will be and how it'll be higher priced tickets. And it will be something that's surrounding you and blah, blah, blah. But maybe it's in the goggles. I said, wait a second. I just only did the interview to tell people that I invented it. I made it. I remember when I was dropping William Morris, right? And then Sarah Newkirk at that time said, before you drop them, go meet with Ari Emmanuel. And I sat with him and said, Ari, I'm an inventor. And he goes on to tell me about the way it works. And what he said is, you are a celebrity. So basically what's going to happen is there's product here. And this is where you end up, right here. If you can communicate this product, you can make money off the product. Because look at Gaga. She's the creative director of Polaroid. I like some of the Gaga songs. What the fuck does she know about cameras?
Kanye West: So it becomes all of this thing where all of the musicians, the musicians Try to get more money by promoting other products, right? So you'll say, hey, you know what? I've got this water and we've got, you know, we've got this red version. We've got a red bottle and we've got a David Beckham version here. Then we've got a blue version. So my opinion is no more than the patina on top of it. When I understand the reason from my core of why something should work all the way through.
Zane Lowe: Mm-hmm.
Kanye West: So I understand we want to make it about music, but I wanted to take this step to say we got this new thing called classism. It's racism's cousin. This is what we do to hold people back. This is what we do. And we got this other thing that's also been working for a long time where you don't have to be racist anymore. It's called self-hate. It works on itself. It's like real estate of racism. Where, just like that, when someone comes up and says something like, I am a God, everybody says, who does he think he is? I just told you who I thought I was. A God. I just told you. That's who I think I am. Would it have been better if I had a song that said, I am a nigga? Or if I had a song that said, I'm a gangster? Or if I had a song that said, I am a pimp? All those colors and patinas fit better. On a person like me, right? But to say you are a god, especially when you got shipped over to the country that you're in and your last name is a slave owner's. How could you say that? How could you have that mentality?
Zane Lowe: I mean, I know in the past you've talked about like, you know, building hotels, doing things that are beyond people's normal frame of reference. They know you as Kanye West, an artist. They know that you're moving into fashion. But these things, I guess, in a way are hard for people to comprehend because they don't have that level of drive. Do you know what I mean? Has it always been like this for you? Have you always felt like you can set your mind to anything and you will achieve it ultimately?
Kanye West: I always felt like I could do anything. That's the main thing people are controlled by. Their perception of themselves. They're slowed down by their perception of themselves. If you're taught you can't do anything, you won't do anything. I was taught I could do everything. And I'm Kanye West at age 36. So just watch the next 10 years.
Kanye West: One thing I want to express to people also. People think a lot of my motivation is very megalomaniac and self-oriented. To the contrary, completely, I just want to help. From day one, I just wanted to help. Like, my father was a Black Panther. My father was a journalist, a paparazzi, a photojournalist. He was a paparazzi. We had a darkroom in our house. Like, seven years ago, he lived in a homeless shelter. Not because he was homeless because he wanted to help. The ex-drug addicts. He wanted to get that close. He started a foundation called Good Water and moved to the Dominican Republic to help right there. To help with the prostitution. To help with the extortion. To help right there. He stays in the Dominican Republic right now. My mom was the first black female chair of the English department. There is no award show. There's no amount of billboards. There's nothing that can define me or make me pass what my parents made me. And that's exactly who I am. And I put on that pink polo and said, broke, broke, and broke through that TV, and now you got to interview with me.
Kanye West: Because Dead Presidents was coming out the gate, and they was like, oh, that ain't going to work. That ain't going to work. But me, I'm here. You know what I mean by I'm here? Meaning I got no play on Yeezus on the radio, right?
Zane Lowe: No. Not entirely true, by the way.
Kanye West: A little bit, but no number one records, no Kanye West, blah, blah, blah, right? So then I was going back and forth with... The company I'm touring with right now. And I said I wanted to perform in the round. And then creatively we just couldn't find it. So I said, put me up against the corner like how we did on Watch the Throne. We'll just do that instead. They said, well, you know, we just can't technically do it. Because technically why? Why can't you do it? They said, look. If you do that, you're going to be in breach of contract, right? So basically, meaning like, if I didn't sell the tickets, I would go into debt. Right. So they pushed me, my back against the ropes, right? And I said, I'll take that chance. I'll take that chance, right? So pre-order, 9,000 the first day in Chicago, doubling Watch the Throne, full pre-orders in one day.
Zane Lowe: Mm-hmm.
Kanye West: That meant the people stood up and said, we like what Kanye is saying. We like new slaves. But we do that all the time.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, but that through radio.
Kanye West: Well, yeah, but I'm a radio broadcaster and I love your records. I mean, you know, for me...
Kanye West: No, I'm not pinpointing just you. I'm talking about the overall radio. There is no Get Lucky on the album. And perhaps, you know, it's just because that just wasn't the song. And maybe it could be that. But it sounds like there's hits on the album to me. But it sounds like there's hits that's distracted by the statements, fuck you and your corporation, y'all niggas can't control me on the first single.
Zane Lowe: Yeah. I mean, you know, this to me sounds like a radio hit where I'm coming from. But you said yourself at the start, you made a record that was built out of frustration and that you were trying to create cracks in the pavement. I like that description more than you made an album full of radio hits. As a Kanye West fan, I don't, you know, turn to your album.
Kanye West: I never described it as an album full of radio hits.
Zane Lowe: No, no, no, no, no, but I'm saying, like, you know, I'd prefer you to describe it as cracks in the pavement than to have made a record just full of radio hits. You know what I mean? I want to hear where you're at.
Kanye West: Pause that. Pause that. That song is a hit song minus the line, fuck you and your corporation, y'all niggas can't control me, on your first single.
Zane Lowe: I think it's a great record. But you didn't hear what I'm saying.
Kanye West: Go on.
Zane Lowe: That song's a hit record minus fuck you and your corporation, y'all niggas can't control me, said on your first single.
Kanye West: Mm, mm. Because if you can't control me, then you can't control him, then you can't control him, then you can't control him, and then the information age starts. What Kurzweil is talking about starts. What Steve Jobs has left us starts. Steve Jobs made the internet usable. This is the information age. We barely scratched the surface. There's things that are moving. The entire music industry was hit by a fucking glacier by the internet. And Sean Parker just like that great shit up in there. And Steve was like, no, no, wait a second. Come on. Give them a little time. There won't be any music. You just give it away like that. You know what I'm saying? But shit is changing.
Kanye West: People are going to look at this interview and say, Hey, I understand what he's talking about. People are going to look at this interview and say, I don't like Kanye. Look, he looks mad. I don't like his teeth. They're going to say, why doesn't he just focus on music? I liked him as music. They're going to say, hey, I want the old Kanye, blah, blah, blah. But one thing they will do, they will play this interview in five years. They will play this interview in 10 years and say, he called that. He called that. He called that. He said that was going to happen. That was going to change.
Zane Lowe: You're a futurist.
Kanye West: Yeah. I'm a post-modernist at best as a career. I'm a futurist mentally.
Zane Lowe: Talking about the internet and where you feature into that, obviously it's just a small part of the future and being a futurist, it's only just an aspect of it. It's changed the way everything moves, but certainly with regards to music.
Kanye West: It's the biggest part. It's our earth. You remember you see future movies and everything was in the sky? It moved to the sky? That's where it is? That's the internet. That's what it is. That's our sky. That's our future sky. We kind of thought we knew what it was and it's flying cars. We didn't get flying cars, but we can send movies like in two seconds.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, that's a very good point. That's a very good point. So you talk about it being in its early stages and it being really not even yet at a point where it's developed its true potential. I mean, what are the key things that you've learned in your journey? Because I'm fascinated to go down this road for a minute if you want. We could talk about this record. I'd love to.
Kanye West: But while we're here... This record is just the codes of that world. Go listen to all my music. It's the codes of self-esteem. It's the codes of who you are. If you're a Kanye West fan, you're not a fan of me. You're a fan of yourself. You will believe in yourself. I'm just the espresso. I'm just a shot in the morning to get you going. To make you believe that you can overcome that situation that you're dealing with all the time.
Zane Lowe: Can I ask you a question about that? I want to talk to you about that aspect of your personality because you said that you're not here to, you know, be, you know, it's all about you. You're here to help. And I believe you when you say that, man. You know, I think, you know, you've given us great records. You like to think about the way things are going to appear in the future. You keep your eye on things. You want to make, you know, like you said, you want to make basketball tops for your old high school. You want to do things right.
Kanye West: Yeah.
Zane Lowe: Do you allow yourself the time to be good to yourself? Do you allow yourself any time for yourself at all? Do you know what I mean? I know you've got a good self-esteem in who you are, but you seem to be doing a lot for the bigger picture, for everything that's moving around you. Do you give yourself time?
Kanye West: Yeah, it's like family time. It's what Kim gave me. She gave me everything. She gave me a family. She gave me a support system. She was in a powerful enough situation where she could love me without asking me for money. Which is really hard for me to find.
Zane Lowe: What are some of the other things that you've learned about yourself since you became a family man?
Kanye West: You know, I can't pinpoint that. I don't have the answer right on me. I got to think about it a little bit and give you a really good answer.
Zane Lowe: Okay, cool.
Kanye West: I've got like a lock and loaded amount of information that I'd like to express on a very wide scale that I'll give you. But if you ask me a question like that, I'll go back and think of it. Maybe I'll have an answer for you in a couple of days.
Zane Lowe: Okay, no problem.
Kanye West: When you get other outlets... You can relax and give other outlets more breathing room. Meaning like, okay, when I did the Coachella performance, I had 30 dancers on stage, modern performance artists. And I had this lift, and I had the Roman wall, and I had the Celine shirt, and all this type stuff.
Kanye West: So when Jay told me he did Watch the Throne, he said, I don't want to use dancers, of course. And I said, that's fine, because I was doing a fashion show in Paris. So I still had 30 girls on the stage, but I still had these elements of the emotion.
Zane Lowe: You must be able to recognize that wasn't the throne thing either. I mean, that wasn't necessarily what throne was about, that type of performance necessarily.
Kanye West: What I'm saying is, it's about whatever I want to make it about. This is my world.
Zane Lowe: But you're with Jay on this, though. It is a collaborative project. It's not just your vision on throne.
Kanye West: Yeah. So then I would have to separate my world, but still get some of my world out through the fact that I had a fashion show. You see what I'm saying? So it's like right now, people could say, oh, he's frustrated. He's that. He's that. No. All I need is the breakthrough, the joint venture for my clothing. Same as Stella McCartney has. I can name so many people that have joint ventures of backing to be able to express themselves that way. Okay, bam. I need that outlet. And then you'll get things closer to Watch the Throne. You'll get things closer to Bound.
Kanye West: Because obviously people, more people are apt to like Blood on the Leaves and Bound and Watch the Throne. It's just more of an overall like...
Zane Lowe: Happier vibe, right?
Kanye West: But Jay is more realized than me. Meaning more of his dreams and hopes and aspirations, blah, blah, blah, has come true. And hopefully, God willing, by the time I'm his age, that thing will happen for me also. And I'll be in that place of a more zenned out place. Even it's like, I couldn't have done this album without Rick Rubin. I had to have a zen master come in and say, okay, this is just what we're gonna do.
Kanye West: You don't realize I am so frustrated. I am so frustrated. I've got so much I want to give. I've got ideas on color palettes. I've got ideas on silhouettes. And I've got a million people telling me why I can't do it. That I'm not a real designer. I'm not this. I'm not a real rapper either. I'm not a real musician either. I don't know how to play the piano. Like I'm an artist. I went to art college. I went to art college and was looked at like I'm soft because I like wore like Italian clothes.
Kanye West: You know what I'm saying? When I'm rapping in front of camera and my pants is tight. Trying to spit a verse for Cam. You know, so that's the same when I'm sitting there, you know, like sitting there at a fashion show. Like... I'm there because I appreciate Phoebe Philo. I appreciate Raf Simmons. I appreciate Ricardo Tisci. And I look at them as my peers, as creative people who dedicate their entire life to making something better for the world.
Kanye West: Let me explain what anybody that knows an artist, and you know someone that's giving that, if you know an artist, there's only one thing you can say, give, or ask them when you see them. There are two words. Thank you. There's no, why didn't you do this? Yo, I want that. What's up? No, we dedicate our entire life to making our current time and civilization better, to adding something to the culture. And there is only two words that you can say. Thank you.
Zane Lowe: Give us an insight into the fashion world, though, and what you've been going through there with that whole experience. The biggest challenge you've ever had, clearly, to get your vision across.
Kanye West: Yeah. Yeah. I'd be helping me.
Zane Lowe: Is that partly, and please don't take this the wrong way, I just mean this for the process of conversation, is that partly do you think because some of the people who are making fashion look at you and they go, well, you said it yourself, they dedicate their whole lives to one thing. You are exceptionally successful and gifted in this area. To move into their area, it's understandable. There's a human aspect of suspicion involved there because they're like, well, hang on a minute, this is our life. So what is it you're trying to achieve here? Do you think there's a part of that that's going on, do you think?
Kanye West: I've dedicated the past 10 years of my life to this. I spent 80% of my time working on this and 20% of my time working on music. Why do you think the song Niggas in Paris is called Niggas in Paris? Because niggas was in Paris. Because I had an office in a small courtyard across the street from Colette where I couldn't even find a good pattern cutter. That's why we were in Paris. I put in the 10,000 hours.
Kanye West: I've got a very particular, specific take on men's footwear. No one can say I cannot design or understand how to design a guy's sneaker. When I was in fourth grade, I was drawing Jordans. When my mama couldn't afford them, I was drawing those Jordans. Getting kicked out of class for drawing him. And when I got that opportunity to work with Nike, I went into that emotional space and place of my life and said, what was it about that? What were the cues that I can add when I make the Yeezys?
Kanye West: You know, I don't ever do interviews. And I wasn't the one rapper that had the opportunity to do a shoe with Nike for no reason. It means it has to be another step. It means it has to keep going. People didn't love the Yeezys the way they did for no reason.
Kanye West: Picture this. For me to do the Yeezys and not have a joint venture backing deal with Nike the next day would have been like if I made Jesus Walks and was never allowed to make an album. If Drake made his first mixtape and was never allowed to be signed. If 2 Chainz only had one 16, and then people say, why are you mad? Do you know how many 16s 2 Chainz had in him? He did 100 features in one year. 100! 100 features!
Zane Lowe: Let's get to the solution then, Kanye. Let's work out how are you going to kick that door in as well? How are you going to get into that world your way, on your terms?
Kanye West: I'm not trying to get into that world. I'm trying to make a higher level of product for the real world. Because people say life isn't fair. And unless you Kanye West or you, you know, this pretty girl that dates this soccer player or your parents had money, you don't get to wear Versace all the time. And you hear it. We love Versace. Versace, Versace, Versace, Versace, Versace. We love Versace. Versace is the greatest designer of all time. We love Versace.
Kanye West: But unless you was to the point where you rap so good and knock down so many doors and produce so much shit that you was able to actually get Dame Dash to give you a record deal because you was a producer. Not because he liked your rap, but because you was a producer. Just because Dame knew what was up and he was downtown with the models and the artists and all that shit. Yo, look at this kid got some talent. You not affording Versace.
Kanye West: The creators, they wanna connect with people. These artists, the clothing designers, they wanna connect with people the same way that music gets to connect with people. But the cost of silk is too expensive and they won't lower their quality level. So I can spend two million on a record and give it out in a democratic way. They could spend all their time making the greatest dress in the world, and it's just impossible to hand make that many.
Kanye West: Let me explain to you what a fashion office is like, right? Sometimes if you're working on an album, once it gets down to the last moments, there's two or three people in the studio. An engineer, a manager, the artist, a label guy. Saying, the masters are due tomorrow. Okay, they're due a day after tomorrow, but let's get them in. It narrows down to that.
Kanye West: At a fashion office, you've had people who have dedicated their entire life to this that are working, 12 people, 15, 20 people, interns coming in. Working to 4 a.m. that night, slaving to be able to put that thing on the runway, pinning things right before they go out. All 20 collections every day for Fashion Month. That is the level of dedication, heart, and soul that goes into that.
Kanye West: But what happens is for real people, the democratic public, the people who have a normal amount of money that work every day, that like nice things, we'll just make these same cuts, blah, blah, blah, and provide this at a democratic cost. The only thing about it that's different than Nike and Apple is there's never a time when someone can walk in with some non-Nike's and you feel less than yourself. You still feel like the greatest version of you when you have those Nike's on. Right?
Kanye West: But you can have on a Zara pant, right? And a girl walks in with the Celine version and you feel like shit. That is the problem. That is the problem.
Zane Lowe: I mean, obviously not my problem because I look like I, I mean, I dress the same way I did when I was like 12. But I'm talking about, I'm talking about us, the new slaves, the people who love fashion.
Kanye West: I'm talking about us, you know, because I'm a slave to it. I love it.
Zane Lowe: Dude, I can tell.
Kanye West: I love it.
Zane Lowe: Yeah.
Kanye West: I love it since age five. My mama brought me to a discount first spot and she, and I'm, and she asked me what I like. Everything I like was too expensive for us. That's five years old. I went to my grandfather's funeral. Um, like three weeks back, and my cousin that works in me stood up and he told this story about, you know, how his mother was a tailor. So he won best dress. I won best dress in high school, too. A bunch of people in the lineage of my family won best dress. But...
Kanye West: His mother was a tailor, right? His mother was a tailor, a black, an African-American tailor. My grandfather was a hustler. He used to take old vintage furniture and reupholster it. Then he had a store. And he sold all of these different items that he thought would be good for people. Do you know how many times I sat with people and said, hey, I want to make a store. And they said, how could you make a store, blah, blah, blah? It's in my code. It's in my code.
Kanye West: Have y'all ever seen Wrecking Ralph?
Zane Lowe: Yeah.
Kanye West: Remember how that girl in there, the people that was racing?
Zane Lowe: The glitch.
Kanye West: Yeah, she was the glitch.
Zane Lowe: Yeah.
Kanye West: You telling me they don't look at me like the motherfucking glitch? You telling me people don't look at Kanye West like the glitch right now? And she was on the side of the video game the whole time. It's in my code. It's in my code.
Zane Lowe: I mean, I watch what happens when you get on the mic or you get on stage and you say what you want to say. And I want to refer this back to your comment about the glitch, right? And I watch people. I see what some people say in comments and whatever after these things get posted. And I go, all right, those are the people that think you're the glitch.
Kanye West: Yeah, they broke Penelope's car. Van Suits, they broke her car.
Zane Lowe: But there's also a lot of people in the audience that love what you have to say. Love hearing what you have to say. Appreciate what you have to say. Do you focus on them as well?
Kanye West: Yeah, 100%. But I'm doing it for everyone. I'm doing it for the people who don't appreciate it, because they'll appreciate it later. And of course, I'm doing it for the people who appreciate it. If no one appreciate it, I know it's a couple people up there that appreciate it. For sure. I appreciate it.
Kanye West: And then people will say, your voice is so strong. Why are you so focused on just clothing? Or why were you focused on just that award show? Or why were you focused on that? The same reason why I sat there and focused on that Otis beat. When people didn't like ham and my hammy heat was losing and I'm in the Mercer and they literally write on the screen, who's watching the throne and show a picture of LeBron and stuff. And I said, I got to watch out the throne like it may Otis, right?
Kanye West: And say this, I know niggas in Paris doesn't work without Otis. You have to bring the flowers to the door first. And we delivered Otis. And then we did this. So wait a second. That's just a step towards this.
Kanye West: Because people could say, what do you mean you want to help the world and you're so concerned about fashion? It's illegal to be naked. It's not illegal to not listen to music. That is a very high opinion to have. That is something that is extremely important. Shoes. You put on shoes every day. You're walking down the street with no shoes, somebody might think there's something wrong with you.
Kanye West: If you're walking down the street without a headphone, it's like, oh, what's up? How you doing today? No headphones today? Cool. No music today. What is it? No shoes? Look, man, what's going on? You're having problems with the family. Is he okay? Why are you...
Zane Lowe: Socks, at least.
Kanye West: Yeah.
Zane Lowe: Sandals.
Kanye West: Flip-flops on you very rarely.
Zane Lowe: Flip-flops.
Kanye West: Very rarely.
Zane Lowe: Sandals with socks. Keep it gangster.
Zane Lowe: I'm from New Zealand. Flip-flops are far more standard.
Kanye West: Yeah, exactly. But not for black dudes, though. No flip-flops for black dudes. I don't care where you at. I don't care where you at. No flip-flops for black dudes. Wear some hot-ass Jordans on a beach.
Zane Lowe: Holy... Dude, we've covered some stuff. Now, can you do me a favor? Like, my brain is just like... I walked in here today. I was going to turn around to the guys. I said, man, I hope I learned some stuff today. My God, I had no idea. But would you... Would you indulge in me for five or 10 minutes? And would you let me just geek out on a music level? Because you know me. I love hearing what you have to say. Some of it I love. Some of it upsets me because as a fan, I think you're too out on yourself. But that's you. That's who you are. That's not for me to say.
Kanye West: What points do you think I'm hard on myself?
Zane Lowe: Well, I think you expect a huge amount of yourself on every level as well you should. And I think that you expect a huge amount of everybody else to understand your motives at all times.
Kanye West: Oh, no, I don't expect to be understood at all.
Zane Lowe: Okay.
Kanye West: But... Like, I don't expect to be... I think that there's people who are wired by their parents to understand what I'm saying.
Zane Lowe: Sure.
Kanye West: And there's people who are wired by their parents to reject what I'm saying. But that doesn't mean that after I make what I'm saying, that they won't use it because they will. And I'm just saying, I want to make things. I want to be able to make things. And I'm not going to be able to make things that I can call Kanye West just by making t-shirts.
Kanye West: At a certain point, it has to connect. I would not be here if it was not for a Rockefeller chain. If it wasn't for Jay-Z's blessing and his cosign and his protection when I was in New York City. Dolo. I would not be here in the way that I am through the category of the drug dealer filled rap game. Me as Kanye West, as a young revolutionary coming out of Chicago, would not have made it that far without Jay-Z being my big brother and watching my back at all times.
Kanye West: And this new place that I'm going to and what I want to do, it has to be someone that says, because the thing is, I'm speaking to everybody, but I'm also speaking and sending cues to the right people to say, come and help me help everybody else. You will win with me. You will win.
Zane Lowe: Let's talk about the production side of things, because you've opened the door to collaboration in a big way on this record. And even though you produced every song on this record, you've been very, very open to the idea of working with all sorts of very talented individuals. Have you enjoyed that aspect of it? I mean, in the past, it hasn't necessarily been that much of a group mentality in making records.
Kanye West: It's the only way I could do it at this point. I can't do it by myself. I can't. Like, I won't. I have no interest in sitting down in the studio by myself and making a track. Like, when I made Overnight Celebrity, which is great, like, I sat down there by myself and made it. And there's people like, yeah, that's the answer. Make that music by yourself again. Yay, we want the... Oh, yay. But... No, I don't feel like doing that. I want to utilize the best resources that we have and have a conversation. As you see, I would rather have a conversation.
Zane Lowe: Was Throne a turning point for that? Because it felt like with Throne, there was a freedom there that didn't necessarily feel like you were carrying the whole thing on your own. And also, you were free to be an MC, to be up front and be a part of that process with Jay. And it wasn't like, oh, Kanye, the producer, rapper, the whole encompassing thing. Did it begin around that time?
Kanye West: Um... Yeah, but dark fantasy though. When we sewed that fabric so tight, you know, like for... Eight, nine months with Pete Rock and No I.D. and Q-Tip, everyone coming down to Hawaii, Nicki Minaj, Rick Ross. Jeff Baskin, we created those textures collectively. I would be eating breakfast with Ross in the morning and just come up with a line and stuff. We'd all go play ball and Nas would come out there and play ball with me and Common and stuff, come up with another line. Then go there and then Virgil have an idea. We say that. Then Don C has an idea. These are really great people that came together to make that.
Kanye West: And I learned that process a bit from working on Close because it's that communal process a lot of times. You can't do it all on your own. You can't handle everything on your own. Hey, how about us as a people, we can't do it on our own.
Zane Lowe: That's true.
Kanye West: We have to. We have to understand that we're not each other's enemy. We have to stop discriminating against each other due to class and due to race and due to location or financial position. We have to say, wow, that is the best version. Let's use it. Let's bring it. Let's bring it to light. Let's move forward. Let's push forward as a civilization.
Kanye West: Because we're so jacked up on our own egos and so misguided by mainstream, you know, marketing, we don't know what the fuck is real. We'd be apt to get into a fight this quick for the dumbest reason. Definitely something that's like racially, you know, this, a gender set, you know, it's like... You know, it's like we're pitted against each other. We're mentally not in a place to be accepting, to not be jealous. Part of that jealousy and that frustration that goes across an entire globe is due to some of these other high corporation level limitations.
Kanye West: Everybody is being served the nasty lunch food. And like, you know, you've heard the word minimalism a lot on this project. Even this, it's like, oh, you give us what you need. May that be what you want. Give us what we need to proceed. Not what we necessarily want, because we can't be trusted to a certain extent, you know.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, because we don't have the education to know what to want.
Kanye West: We don't know what to want. This is what I was telling that writer in W. I'm learning now. What I want. This is the reason why I'm working at five architects at a time. But that time that I'm spending in a bad apartment, I can't get that back. And that education that I can get from working on it, it's priceless. And there's very few people that are in the position to educate themselves as much as I can educate myself. For me, it's constant information intake. I hang around architects mostly.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, I wanted to talk about that side of things, because I know that that's how, you know, that was... That's been talked about in relation to this record as well, and that blows my mind. I mean, for me, I try and connect the dots through my favorite records as much as I can, but I need you to help me connect the dots on how architecture and how a certain type of design that you surrounded yourself with whilst in Paris has somehow manifested itself into this and how they're not separate things.
Kanye West: Yeah, it all parallels. It's like, you know, synesthesia, seeing sounds. It all parallels. People will tell you, this business isn't like this business. It's the same people everywhere you go. The same type of guy you might meet in Hollywood. You might meet that same type of character in fashion. You might meet that same type of character in music.
Kanye West: You got some straight up people that do it for the love and they want to promote it. It's all about that. You got some people that's trying to like make their way. It's like what they said, 5%, 10% and 85%. And it's like this, the 10% is the media for the most part. The 85% don't really know what it is. And the 5% that know what it is can't get it past the 10%. So this alone would be a break. This is a jump past.
Kanye West: This is going to get taken off the internet. Quick. Shoot. Send a paparazzi at him. Send a paparazzi at him. Do that. Get him locked up. That's what's going to happen. And paparazzi are going to come at me. I'm just standing there like, I know what you're trying to do right now, sir. I know exactly what you're trying to do. Somebody sent you at me. Somebody's trying to set me up. Somebody's trying to shut me up.
Zane Lowe: You know, people will look at what's been going on with you and the cameras. It's been going on with other people for a long time as well. And I need you to help people who don't live your life and look at those magazines. And there's millions and millions of people that do. And look at those pictures who don't understand what it is that you go through in that situation. What is it from your perspective? You've got this platform, you've used it to talk about a bunch of things. So use it now to explain to them why is it, what is it? What is it like to go through that?
Kanye West: Okay, for me, first of all, dopeness is what I like the most. Dopeness. People who want to make things as dope as possible. And, by default, make money from it. The thing that I like the least are people who only want to make money from things whether they're dope or not, and especially make money at making things as least dope as possible.
Kanye West: Photography used to be like a sexy profession. It was like being a ballplayer or like a rapper or like a venture capitalist or something like that, right? It was like, you know, they used to get all the girls and everything. Like a photographer, you go to a photographer's studio like that? They completely, you know, change what photography is supposed to mean. Same as how there's like... Plenty of musicians that have sold the fuck out and changed the art of music where people don't hold that to the highest level of genius anymore. Meaning if there's a high level artist, like visual artists or a high level clothing artist, they'll be held at a higher level of genius level. So it confuses things.
Kanye West: So I take that to paparazzi. It confuses it. Paparazzi is necessary, not even a necessary evil. It just needs to be legalized. Meaning at a certain point, there's cutoff switches. You know what time it is, you know what it's at. Paparazzi currently is like... I understand, give it rules, give it boundaries.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, and obviously like publishing. Because they're selling our image. And they're selling it in a bad way.
Kanye West: Let me get this straight, what's offending you more? The fact they're selling your image or the fact they're selling your image in a bad way?
Kanye West: In a bad way. In a bad way.
Zane Lowe: In a bad way and I'm not getting paid for it.
Kanye West: Right, there you go. So it's like the dopeness which makes the money. I want the dopeness and the money.
Zane Lowe: Yeah.
Kanye West: I'm changing things for my daughter and I'ma tell my daughter by the time she understands what it was, man, me and your mother were in a completely different situation than you're in. At that time, paparazzi, it wasn't legal. People could take pictures. People could climb over your fence. People could do that. You wouldn't even get paid for it. You see all these checks that you get at age six because people taking your picture? You don't have to worry about a thing ever again just because people want to take your picture. And I made that happen, Nori. That's what I'm going to tell her.
Zane Lowe: So touring to be done. Oh, I want to talk to you about control. I want to talk to you about the verse and control, about Kendrick's verse and control. Because obviously, you know, he credited you. He put you at the table where you rightfully should be with the M&Ms and the Jay-Zs. He put you on that side of the equation and then he rattled off the list. And I thought, okay, it's great. You deserve to be at the table. But 10 years ago, if you hadn't been at the table and you'd been on his list, how do you think you would have reacted? Would you have been appreciative of his message or would you have come out swinging, do you think, and...
Kanye West: Written a response.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, yeah.
Kanye West: I don't do diss records.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, yeah. You looking forward to the tour with him? I mean, that's an incredible double bill.
Kanye West: Yeah, it's 100%. It's 100%. I'm just looking forward to the opportunity to speak to this brother as much as possible. Those conversations is going to be more than everything I even said right here. Because he's one of our future messengers. You know?
Zane Lowe: Let's talk about this track here. Which was the first track that we were given off this album to play on the radio, which we did. You said no singles, but we ran with this one early and we've proven to be right. So let's talk about this track here and who you worked with. You worked with Daft Punk on this in part and how the song came together.
Kanye West: Well, Daft had the drums. And then I just took the record and I just started, both this song, I Am A God and this song were made after Hedy Sumane didn't let me into his first St. Laurent show. But it wasn't that he wanted me to go, but he just told me I couldn't go to any other shows. So, and I was like, wait a second. I can't go, you're not telling no editor they can't go to any shows. I'm not your boy. You can control me in some way. So I made, off of that, I went into the studio with the producers that made the music for his show. And made I Am A God and Black Skinhead.
Zane Lowe: And that was your reaction to that situation.
Kanye West: That was my reaction.
Zane Lowe: That was the aspect of frustration you talked about that you poured into this record.
Kanye West: Yes.
Zane Lowe: Yeah, right on. I mean, let's talk about another track on here as well. New Slaves, which is, you know, one of my favorite songs on the record. And, you know, as far as beats go, it's just remarkable. We even get stuck into the subject matter, which is a whole other level. I mean, you know, you're talking about the materialism, about commerce, about corporations and everything else. But at the same time, you know, there's a blurred line between whether or not you're a part of it, whether you're objecting to it or where it stands. I mean, just give us some insight into what the song is.
Kanye West: I'm 100% a part of it. I'm 100% in it. I'm 100% I want to overcome it. Sometimes I'm the communicator of it. Sometimes I'm the maker of it. Sometimes I'm the consumer of it. I'm in it. I'm in the game. But for me, yeah, I say I am a new slave. You could be a slave to a lot of things. At this point, obviously, I'm a slave to my passion. I'm a slave to my mission.
Kanye West: It's funny, you drive in a Maybach past a homeless person, you ask, who's more free? You could be trapped to your possessions. You got to do this next deal because you got to do this with your house and you got to get this car and you got to keep up. Everybody stay next to you. Last name is Jones. And you're trying to keep up with all of them. And that's what it's like to be a celebrity.
Kanye West: A lot of times, that's especially every rap is about how much money you make, how many spins you get, how many cars you get, what house you get, what do you know, what house A-Rod get. We like, you know, rappers and musicians trying to compete with ballplayers with way bigger contracts. Meanwhile, the music is the Titanic that's going down like this. And everybody from the execs to the musicians are running around trying to see how they can still keep that certain house level, that certain car level, that certain thing up.
Kanye West: And of course, for me, I'm blessed and I'm privileged because I made such a powerful impact that I can make a certain amount on tour. But also, I'm blessed and cursed by my level of education. You know, to be a visionary, all you have to do is make decisions based off of your eyes instead of your ears and your memory.
Kanye West: Meaning, so at the moment of the MTV Awards, I made that decision based off of my eyes. I was like, that's not correct. That is invalid. Completely invalid. And everybody else don't move. That's off their ears. Oh, he gonna get in trouble. That's off their memory. They don't move. They're enslaved. They're enslaved to what could possibly happen.
Kanye West: We're constantly slaved. There's glass ceilings. There's glass fences. There's invisible walls. Don't think I ain't been many a times singing like five heartbeats in pairs. I've been up there singing. Y'all want to diss one of my outfits? Y'all want to say that? Y'all want to like try to diss one of my girlfriend's outfits? We just singing. Y'all sing a group, ain't y'all? We came out there, they was talking about, y'all sing a group, ain't y'all? Sing something then.
Kanye West: And what we sing? We sang Pyrex. We sang Ben Trill. We sang Snapbacks. We sang Yeezus. But we want to sing Nike. We want that clean water. I tasted it. I see what it's like. We want to sing Louis Vuitton. We want to sing on a Gucci level. We want to sing as high as we can sing when we have pyramids. We don't want to just have a little print on the back of our jacket that costs $2,000 making us feel like a king again for a day. We don't want to just have the jewelry just trying to make us feel good. We want to be good.
Kanye West: That's creation. That's that thing that people slave over. That's that thing that people are slaves to. That's that thing I'm a slave to. That's passion. That's that thing where you can hold it. That's that dreaming about a new pair of Jordans. That's the process of opening up a Nike box. That thing that Steve gave us. And when you open up your new iPhone and you got the iPhone 5, whether you stood in line for it or whatever you did and stuff, and you open it up, and you got this new product.
Kanye West: That's that Transformers in the box that you open up for Christmas or that new TurboGrafx-16 or Sega Genesis or Amiga computer or 3DO or Nintendo. Or it's like when you just open that packaging, the process of the packaging. That's that porno mag that that drug addict bought for you when you was 14 that was in that package and you figured out how to pay that drug dealer before there was internet to buy you and you open up that and you know you're going to make five of them girls your girlfriend all weekend. That's why I'm on that runway until I'm at the end of it.
Zane Lowe: Fair play and good luck, man. Take your time again.
Kanye West: Thank you.
Zane Lowe: All right. Thank you, crew. Thank you. Oh, my God, dude. That was the most intense fucking interview of my life.
Kanye West: Not since Pac, right?

Event Date: September 23, 2013